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2019 11 18 Task 3 Coordination Meeting
InaDJ edited this page Nov 19, 2019
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- Contents
- Task 3 Coordination Meeting
- Building modelling subgroup meeting
- Network modelling subgroup meeting
Date: November 18, 2019, 5pm Brussels time (UTC+2)
- Update on buildings subgroup
- Differences in solar radiation to explain the differences in simulation results between DIMOSIM and IDEAS (Enora)
- Definition of renovations (Ina)
- Definition of office building (Michael)
- Update from new modelers?
- Update on network subgroup
- Two new network layouts almost finished
- Error calculation: "Suggestion of references for the comparison of the cases and suggestion of metrics to compare those cases to the reference. Have a look at this google doc and feel free to comment." - Hicham Johra
- Action points?
- Join Skype Meeting
- Trouble Joining? Try Skype Web App
- Join by phone
- +3216379898 (Heverlee) Dutch (Netherlands)
- +3216379897 (Heverlee) English (United States)
- Find a local number
- Conference ID: 9884683
Present :
- Ina De Jaeger
- Dirk Saelens
- Alessandro Maccarini
- Katy Hinkelman
- Michael Mans
- Hicham Johra
- Hasan Sayeghi
- Jes Stershic
All the actions points are for the next coordination meeting (1st half of January), except if it otherwise specified. For the next meeting, plan a 1h30 discussion in order to discuss deeper all the topics. > Ina
- Building model comparisons
- Enora compared the incoming solar radiation on the facade for IDEAS and DIMOSIM:
- When simulating the 16 occupants, the trend (comparing to the initial simulation) is the same for every occupant in DIMOSIM and IDEAS, but with various differences (from 5-10% to 15-20%). Then it is interesting to go back to the basis and look deeper in the solar gains to explain part of the differences.
- There is a peak of diffuse radiation at the first hour of the day for IDEAS that is strange, Ina will look into it. The question is also if every user of MODELICA is witnessing the same peak or is it only IDEAS ?
- The differences in the solar gain calculation can explain the deviations in the first building simulation. It is as important as the thermal characteristics.
- The point is to propose to other participants to either send a file with the incoming solar radiation or propose a free comparison like for the temperature and thermal output of the zones. It would allow to see if the basic is the same, and draw more precise conclusions on the differences between the simulators.
- The results for the 16 occupants has to be discussed at the next building meeting.
- Action Points:
- Alessandro send to Ina the incoming solar radiation on the facade and inside the building for the whole year.
- Other Participants : Katy with building Library ? Hicham with Daysim ?
- Building renovation definition
- Ina used the definition of the renovation standard that we discussed in Rome, taking also into account the ventilation and the air tightness. She compared the thermal parameters and the heating energy between TABULA, StroBE and the mean of the 16 occupants:
- Infiltration rate very low for the dynamic simulation compared to TABULA but at the same time the energy need is much higher. We were expecting the opposite.
- TABULA is using a static calculation but information on the used equation is nowhere to find. The results are quite strange when looking at the variation of U-values for the different standards in TABULA comparing to the reduction of energy need (U-value 5/6 time lower but the energy demand is not even 2 times lower).
- For Strobe and the 16 occupants the energy need is very low when using the renovation standards. It is decided to keep the definition of the renovation as it is and see the result of other participants. TABULA has a very simplified method, our dynamic simulations seem more trustful.
- There is no difference in the infiltration rate between the light and heavy renovation standard because of the mechanical ventilation and the heat recovery used in the heavy renovation. Ina add a note to it in order to inform the users that there is a particularity.
- Action Points:
- Ina send the XML file when it is ready.
- Alessandro and Enora proposed to simulate it.
- Office Building Modelling
- Update from Michael:
- The description of the office building is in the google doc were everybody can look.
- The geometry Dirk proposed in Rome was chosen in a simplified version: 3 zones per floor (North, South and Corridor) for a 3-floors building.
- Dirk propose to simulate only 3 floors for each building, no matter how much floor there is: 1st floor, last floor and one middle floor that is duplicated for all other floors. It would allow to have maximum 9 zones for each office building, no matter which height.
- Dirk will see with Arash if other zones must be added and which difference it implies till the Montréal meeting.
- Action Point:
- Feedback and comments on the google doc, in order to finalize the definition of the office building for the next coordination meeting.
- Update from Michael:
- 2 new layouts for the network to see the problem of scalability: 8 buildings network and 32 buildings network.
- Michael almost finished compiling the data for the definition of the networks, and will provide soon the documents in the same format as the 16 building network proposed by Felix.
- The 8 building network has the same dimensioning as the 16 building network. The documentation is ready.
- The 32 building network need a new dimensioning, and will be ready in 1-2 weeks.
- These layouts are mostly to have a dataset for inter-modelling comparison but also to see the scalability of each simulators.
- District cooling network:
- As European we focus on heating network, but it would be interesting to expand the comparisons to cooling networks
- Problematic: where to find the loads? Several propositions:
- From the office building
- From the residential building with a different climate (with an ideal reversible generator)
- From Katy’s data if she can share it when she will be working on it.
- Connection network to building simulation: Hasan propose to look into Annelies work to speed up the simulations.
- Action Points:
- Finalizing the Description of the network
- Simulating the network with a special look into the simulation time (for the Montréal meeting)
- Start looking at the cooling side
- Hicham does a quick recapitulation on what is on the google doc (see the previous Minutes of the 7 of October)
- Action Points:
- Read and comment/annotate the google doc
- Coordination meeting: https://doodle.com/poll/gv53pcyqgm9yrdn4
Date:
Present: Excused:
Date:
Present: Excused: